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WengerIntro-II

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Identity as interaction process

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Yong-Mi Kim's picture

This is how I interpreted Wenger:

Each person belongs to one or more communities. Identity is the interplay between the individual and the community. Identity is dynamic, will vary according to the community, and can also be seen as a buffer or membrane between the individual and the community.

Charles's picture

Love the visual, here are some other ideas

I think your visual draws a pretty clear picture of how we deal with identities: Multiple communities, multiple identities.

Expanding on that visual, I think interesting things can happen when 2 communities overlap and forces identies to overlap as well. An example is when you go to happy hour with your workmates (professional community) and invite your friends (social community). The two identities will then negotiate unitl a compromise is reached.

The same thing could happen when virtual friends meet each other in person for the first time causing a compromise between their online identity and their real identity.

Ayça AksuErkan's picture

Some are stronger

I like the diagram too. But doesn't a person have one identity that s/he maintains across boundaries of multiple communities. Maybe the identities above are the projections of 'the identity' on particular communities. Another thing I thought was that those projections of identities do not necessarily have the same strength in terms of negotiability. For example, the projection of my identity onto SI is stronger than the projection of my identity onto the community of UM graduate students.

Erika Doyle's picture

Projections

I like your idea about "projections", Ayça. And Wenger would probably want to add that just as an individual projects his identity onto the community (i.e., a personal style, a certain posture, his own sense of uniqueness), the community projects an own identity (i.e., expectations and norms of behavior and attitude) on the individual. This might explain the differing strengths of identity according to what groups one belongs to--the bigger and more diverse the group, the less identity negotiation is able to take place. The Rackham student "community" must accommodate so many students and so much diversity that it can't project any particular identity on me, and thus it isn't really worth my effort to try to project my own sense of identity on it (I am content that the Rackham administrators and my Rackham peers across campus will never really know who I am). I guess that makes me a lurker in the Rackham community.

Paul Resnick's picture

lost in the crowd but still strong impact of identitication

Your identification with Rackham and its influence on you are weak, but not just because Rackham is so diverse.

The United States is far more bigger and more diverse than Rackham, yet it has a huge influence on my identity.

Erika Doyle's picture

also a matter of being around "the other"

Oh, that's a good point! And just like my identiy as an American and the influences  of being an American citizen are most keenly felt while traveling abroad, I can imagine feeling a  much stronger identity with Rackham if I were in a group of graduate students from other universities, or even amongst a group of UM undergrads. This might explain why a lot of the graduating second years feel more inclined to attend the Rackham graduation ceremony than the overall university graduation, which some of my friends have described as "impersonal" and "the undergraduate ceremony".

A focus on identity

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Ayça AksuErkan's picture

This short introduction gives an overview of the second part of the book that focuses on identity. The takeaway is that we all belong to a community but with unique identities. Beware! As usual, Wenger uses fuzzy terms and discusses what they are not rather than what they are.

Key points:
-    The focus is narrowed onto the individual, but from a social perspective. Identity is the social, the cultural, and the historical with a human face. The focus is also expanded beyond CoP, calling attention to the broader social and identification processes.
-    The unit of analysis of identity is at somewhere between the individual and the community. Wait, the focus is now on their mutual constitution! Identity is not narrowly individual, nor it is abstractly collective.

Assumptions to avoid:

-    There is an inherent conflict between the individual and the collective.
-    (Referring to the individual and the collective) One is good and the other bad; one a source of problems and the other is a source of solutions.

Structure of Part II:

Chapter 6: Identity in practice: Establishes a parallel between practice and identity.
Ch. 7: Identities of participation and non-participation: Introduces non-participation as central to identity formation.
Ch. 8: Modes of belonging: Extends the notion of belonging beyond local communities of practice.
Ch. 9: Identification and negotiability: Discusses issues of belonging in terms of social identification and negotiability - variably owning meaning that defines communities.
Coda II: Learning communities: Summarizes Part II describing the basics of a learning community

Identity versus level of analysis

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Jesse Chandler's picture

Wegner points out that individuals and the community are not dichotomous, nor do I think that they mutually constitute one another as Wegner claaims. Instead, I think that they represent two different languages used to describe observations about the world. I think that the presumed struggle between these ultimately two "levels" ultimately comes from disagreements about the appropriate level of analysis to answer a question being reduced to disagreements about the value of each level of analysis (the types of question posed are mistaken for the types of answer given).

For some questions, it seems more important to us to ask questions about the communities role in constructing a certain situation (e.g. education). For other questions it seems more important to ask questions about the individual's role in constructing a situation (e.g. criminal culpability). In both cases the other level of analysis is typically only appealed to as a mitigating factor.

The two different levels of analysis are not really in conflict with one another, but occasionally they describe forces that are in conflict with one another. I am willing to bet that these types of conflict are easier to remember than situations in which the two kinds of description seem to operate in harmony. This is probably because there is not need to appeal to both levels of analysis when they are in harmony with one another (because either level is "good enough" on its own).

It would be conceptually difficult to manage thinking about a problem on more than one level at the same time (imagine trying to consciously model the physics and sociology of handshakes at the same time) but it is a reasonable idea to approach problems through by alternating between both lenses and trying to gain insight into how one might affect the other.

Xiaomu Zhou's picture

mutual constitution

Jesse, I agree with your discussion on the level of analysis. Here I try to understand and  explain why Wenger says that individual and community constitute one another. Take myself and SI as an example. I am a student of SI (community), so it is obvious that I am a ‘constituent’ of SI. From my side, the activities I take part in SI only contribute part of my life. SI and all other communities I participate jointly define who I am as a person. Wenger’s identity discussion very much focuses on the process of this mutual constitution.

Paul Resnick's picture

Why they're mutually constituted

I agree that it's useful to start with different levels of analysis, depending on what you're trying to describe, explain, or predict, as Jesse says. I think Wenger would agree with that, too.

When you pick one level of analysis (individual or community), you often need to refer to the other. For example, to describe Xiaomu's individual identity, you really need to refer to the communities she is a member of, as she suggests. To describe community level things like barriers to entry or norms, you do so in terms of their impacts on individuals. This need to refer to the other level of analysis  suggests to me that they are  indeed mutually constituted.

greedy reductionists and holists

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jina's picture

I agree with Jesse's point about the existance of social-individual dichotomy in the 'analysis' as a necessary evil. I once talked with Mimi Ito, an anthropologist (e.g., study camera phone users in Japan), about Wenger's book, and she commented that in the education systems, they learn (practice) collectively, but gets evaluated individually. There's a mismatch between the ideal educational practice and the outcome of the evaluation, still going back to the individual basis of analysis at the end of the day.

However, I guess Jesse's point about supposing physics together with sociology is fundamentally against Wenger's supposed readers of his book.

There are words for overestimating the power of little things (e.g., greedy reductionists), but not for those who are overestimating the power of collectiveness. If physicists analyze society, they may become greedy reductionists. But if sociologists study physics (which they would never do), they just become holists. Wenger just says that let's be holistic, but nothing more.

Xiaomu Zhou's picture

Mimi’s comment

Mimi’s comment makes me think what the best way to evaluate our class educational outcome is. I would think that our eCommunities class is a highly collectively learning practice. A’s learning outcome may benefit a great deal from B’s large amount of high quality posts online. C’s paper may get a lot of insights from D’s in-class discussion. E’s final paper improves a lot because F gives her very constructive comments for her previous papers. No evaluation system is perfect. And the purpose of an evaluation system seems always to distinguish one from the other, I am wondering what might be the way to evaluate collectively?

BTW, do you mean physicists instead of physicians? Physicians can be that way too :-)

jina's picture

Oops, thanks. I always get

Oops, thanks. I always get that wrong somehow.

yeah, I guess I won't be able to answer that question since I'm not that person to talk to. I guess that anecdote just gives an example of how the level of analysis cannot be in parallel together with the learning process, due to many circumstances.

Notes from in-class discussion

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Matt Raw's picture

Mutually constitutable argument
You have to be able to reference the idea of community if you wish to talk about identity issues for individuals.

Likewise, if you're going to talk about community identity, you need to talk about the individual identities that compose those communities.

Identity does not exist just through individual declaration -- there must be a community that recognizes that identity (see Yong-Mi's diagram). In interactions with communities, only parts of your identity is revealed to each community